How many tools are needed to sustain a self-sufficient methane plant?
Question:
I know that some farms are turning themselves into methane producers. I wonder how hard it is to fabricate and maintain the necessary base of equipment for methane generation. A farm can be considered to be largely self-sufficient if it produces enough materials to meet most daily needs. E.g., consider a farm that uses organic composting to produce methane for electricity and high quality organic fertilizer for crops. Such a farm might very well import no energy, no water — nothing but replacement parts for items such as motors. It might go for months without a single tool breakdown requiring an import. If self-sufficient organic farms use tools that are designed to be easily repaired and long-lasting, it might be possible to import only replacement parts rather than whole replacement tools. Of course, those who are motivated by profit will resist this, since modern consumerism prefers to sell products which cannot be repaired and must be thrown out when any component fails. If farms in the developing world can be brought up to a level of technology where they can produce their own renewable energy (windpower, methane, etc.) and repair most of their tools, the results would save many lives, since the developing world would have less need of imported tools, fertilizers, and energy from elsewhere. I’ve been looking through the notes from my engineering courses, trying to determine a fault analysis for an organic farm based on mean-time-to-failure for a representative sample of components. However I don’t know enough about the tools used on organic farms and how they are supplied. I also don’t know enough about the tools needed to keep a compost-to-methane operation going. (I have webpages describing how methane is being used in China and India, but I don’t have any contacts who have worked with it.) I think self-sufficient farms are a good idea for everyone — developing nations and developed nations alike — but if the developing nations can taste independence from imported fertilizers and energy, that would be a big step forward. Any help will be appreciated.
Response:
www.methane-gas.com — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel powered diesels at http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know that some farms are turning themselves into methane > producers. I wonder how hard it is to fabricate and maintain > the necessary base of equipment for methane generation. > A farm can be considered to be largely self-sufficient if it produces > enough materials to meet most daily needs. E.g., consider a farm that > uses organic composting to produce methane for electricity and high > quality organic fertilizer for crops. Such a farm might very well > import no energy, no water — nothing but replacement parts for items > such as motors. It might go for months without a single tool > breakdown requiring an import. > If self-sufficient organic farms use tools that are designed to be > easily repaired and long-lasting, it might be possible to import only > replacement parts rather than whole replacement tools. Of course, > those who are motivated by profit will resist this, since modern > consumerism prefers to sell products which cannot be repaired and must > be thrown out when any component fails. > If farms in the developing world can be brought up to a level of > technology where they can produce their own renewable energy > (windpower, methane, etc.) and repair most of their tools, the results > would save many lives, since the developing world would have less need > of imported tools, fertilizers, and energy from elsewhere. > I’ve been looking through the notes from my engineering courses, > trying to determine a fault analysis for an organic farm based on > mean-time-to-failure for a representative sample of components. > However I don’t know enough about the tools used on organic farms and > how they are supplied. I also don’t know enough about the tools > needed to keep a compost-to-methane operation going. (I have webpages > describing how methane is being used in China and India, but I don’t > have any contacts who have worked with it.) > I think self-sufficient farms are a good idea for everyone — > developing nations and developed nations alike — but if the > developing nations can taste independence from imported fertilizers > and energy, that would be a big step forward. > Any help will be appreciated.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know that some farms are turning themselves into methane > producers. I wonder how hard it is to fabricate and maintain > the necessary base of equipment for methane generation. > A farm can be considered to be largely self-sufficient if it produces > enough materials to meet most daily needs. E.g., consider a farm that > uses organic composting to produce methane for electricity and high > quality organic fertilizer for crops. Such a farm might very well > import no energy, no water — nothing but replacement parts for items > such as motors. It might go for months without a single tool > breakdown requiring an import. > If self-sufficient organic farms use tools that are designed to be > easily repaired and long-lasting, it might be possible to import only > replacement parts rather than whole replacement tools. Of course, > those who are motivated by profit will resist this, since modern > consumerism prefers to sell products which cannot be repaired and must > be thrown out when any component fails. > If farms in the developing world can be brought up to a level of > technology where they can produce their own renewable energy > (windpower, methane, etc.) and repair most of their tools, the results > would save many lives, since the developing world would have less need > of imported tools, fertilizers, and energy from elsewhere. > I’ve been looking through the notes from my engineering courses, > trying to determine a fault analysis for an organic farm based on > mean-time-to-failure for a representative sample of components. > However I don’t know enough about the tools used on organic farms and > how they are supplied. I also don’t know enough about the tools > needed to keep a compost-to-methane operation going. (I have webpages > describing how methane is being used in China and India, but I don’t > have any contacts who have worked with it.) > I think self-sufficient farms are a good idea for everyone — > developing nations and developed nations alike — but if the > developing nations can taste independence from imported fertilizers > and energy, that would be a big step forward. > Any help will be appreciated.
You have hit the nail on the head mentioning India and China, temperature makes the difference, we in the UK. have a long cold winter, fermentation starts slowly at 50 f. and really needs 65 or 70 to produce well, if fermentation vessels are well buried this will help but it will have to be covered by atleast 4 ft and more to be effective, and even then it will probably need some of the product to heat the fluids and agitate it for best results.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know that some farms are turning themselves into methane > producers. I wonder how hard it is to fabricate and maintain > the necessary base of equipment for methane generation. > A farm can be considered to be largely self-sufficient if it produces > enough materials to meet most daily needs. E.g., consider a farm that > uses organic composting to produce methane for electricity and high > quality organic fertilizer for crops. Such a farm might very well > import no energy, no water — nothing but replacement parts for items > such as motors. It might go for months without a single tool > breakdown requiring an import. > If self-sufficient organic farms use tools that are designed to be > easily repaired and long-lasting, it might be possible to import only > replacement parts rather than whole replacement tools. Of course, > those who are motivated by profit will resist this, since modern > consumerism prefers to sell products which cannot be repaired and must > be thrown out when any component fails. > If farms in the developing world can be brought up to a level of > technology where they can produce their own renewable energy > (windpower, methane, etc.) and repair most of their tools, the results > would save many lives, since the developing world would have less need > of imported tools, fertilizers, and energy from elsewhere. > I’ve been looking through the notes from my engineering courses, > trying to determine a fault analysis for an organic farm based on > mean-time-to-failure for a representative sample of components. > However I don’t know enough about the tools used on organic farms and > how they are supplied. I also don’t know enough about the tools > needed to keep a compost-to-methane operation going. (I have webpages > describing how methane is being used in China and India, but I don’t > have any contacts who have worked with it.) > I think self-sufficient farms are a good idea for everyone — > developing nations and developed nations alike — but if the > developing nations can taste independence from imported fertilizers > and energy, that would be a big step forward. > Any help will be appreciated. > You have hit the nail on the head mentioning India and China, temperature > makes the difference, we in the UK. have a long cold winter, fermentation > starts slowly at 50 f. and really needs 65 or 70 to produce well, if > fermentation vessels are well buried this will help but it will have to be > covered by atleast 4 ft and more to be effective, and even then it will > probably need some of the product to heat the fluids and agitate it for > best results.
Once the fermentation starts, it ought to produce its own heat. Therefore, an insulated fermentation vessel would be a good idea. Some heat can be imported to start the process. If the insulation is good enough, it might even be necessary to actively cool the vessel. Ray
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I know that some farms are turning themselves into methane > > producers. I wonder how hard it is to fabricate and maintain > > the necessary base of equipment for methane generation. > > A farm can be considered to be largely self-sufficient if it > produces > > enough materials to meet most daily needs. E.g., consider a farm > that > > uses organic composting to produce methane for electricity and high > > quality organic fertilizer for crops. Such a farm might very well > > import no energy, no water — nothing but replacement parts for > items > > such as motors. It might go for months without a single tool > > breakdown requiring an import. > > If self-sufficient organic farms use tools that are designed to be > > easily repaired and long-lasting, it might be possible to import > only > > replacement parts rather than whole replacement tools. Of course, > > those who are motivated by profit will resist this, since modern > > consumerism prefers to sell products which cannot be repaired and > must > > be thrown out when any component fails. > > If farms in the developing world can be brought up to a level of > > technology where they can produce their own renewable energy > > (windpower, methane, etc.) and repair most of their tools, the > results > > would save many lives, since the developing world would have less > need > > of imported tools, fertilizers, and energy from elsewhere. > > I’ve been looking through the notes from my engineering courses, > > trying to determine a fault analysis for an organic farm based on > > mean-time-to-failure for a representative sample of components. > > However I don’t know enough about the tools used on organic farms > and > > how they are supplied. I also don’t know enough about the tools > > needed to keep a compost-to-methane operation going. (I have > webpages > > describing how methane is being used in China and India, but I don’t > > have any contacts who have worked with it.) > > I think self-sufficient farms are a good idea for everyone — > > developing nations and developed nations alike — but if the > > developing nations can taste independence from imported fertilizers > > and energy, that would be a big step forward. > > Any help will be appreciated. > You have hit the nail on the head mentioning India and China, > temperature > makes the difference, we in the UK. have a long cold winter, > fermentation > starts slowly at 50 f. and really needs 65 or 70 to produce well, if > fermentation vessels are well buried this will help but it will have > to be > covered by atleast 4 ft and more to be effective, and even then it > will > probably need some of the product to heat the fluids and agitate it > for > best results. > Once the fermentation starts, it ought to produce its own heat. > Therefore, an insulated fermentation vessel would be a good idea. Some > heat can be imported to start the process. If the insulation is good > enough, it might even be necessary to actively cool the vessel. > Ray
There was a great deal of idea’s and action, in the sixties, it maybe a good idea to search the web for some of them. Basic fermenting like used in India is good in the warm latitudes, but in order to get a good continuous supply of gas conditions must be within certain bands, after a while the ferment stops or slows down and needs agitating, an idea would be to have two vessels pumping from one to the other then when it is spent one could be empytied while the other can still be added to with more whatever then they could be returned to full use. Water traps must be used on inlets to stop gas escaping up the feed pipe, then I am stating the obvious here sorry. A drying out area or pan would be good> unless the slurry left from the vessels can used as fertiliser, only I believe dried out slurry makes a reasonable fuel in a large stove, a smouldering fire.
Response:
> There was a great deal of idea’s and action, in the sixties, it maybe a good > idea to search the web for some of them. > Basic fermenting like used in India is good in the warm latitudes, but in > order to get a good continuous supply of gas conditions must be within > certain bands, after a while the ferment stops or slows down and needs > agitating, an idea would be to have two vessels pumping from one to the > other then when it is spent one could be empytied while the other can still > be added to with more whatever then they could be returned to full use. > Water traps must be used on inlets to stop gas escaping up the feed pipe, > then I am stating the obvious here sorry. > A drying out area or pan would be good> unless the slurry left from the > vessels can used as fertiliser, only I believe dried out slurry makes a > reasonable fuel in a large stove, a smouldering fire.
Those are very good specific points. Personally I think that the slurry could be used more effectively as topsoil than as fuel, but that’s going to depend on the users, the circumstances, and the slurry. By the way, I had a major realization — Buckminster Fuller already spelled out this whole problem far more effectively than anything I’ve written in any of my posts so far.
Response:
Actually the spent slurry is used to build the soil. It’s a good idea to get the methane from it first. — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel powered diesels at http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Personally I think that the slurry could be used more effectively as > topsoil than as fuel, but that’s going to depend on the users, the > circumstances, and the slurry.
Response:
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